I am interested in hearing what you think about these issues!!! I don't really want to debate, more just compare our ideas... How about we first start with your religious ideas... Could your possibly answer all the questions you have under religious? I'll respond back and tell you my beliefs! Thanks girls!!!
Hello Ireland, Sorry we haven't wrote yet we didn't see this until just now. That is fine! It would be fun to compare our beliefs. Okay! Why women should have long hair:
The Bible says "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." I Corinthians 11:15
We believe that God says specifically that he wants his daughters to have long hair, and to be a testimony of him.
When you see girls with long hair and skirts you automatically think those girls are Christians! It tells people about God just the way you dress or have your hair or how you talk.
Ladies with extremely short hair we would take Deut. 22:5. We understand that some ladies have cancer and lose their hair or some girls have extremely slow growing hair (Or fragile hair). That can't be helped, they know they have their hair as long as they can.
These are some of the reasons we believe that women should have long hair.
First off - Should women wear head coverings in church? I don't think it's necessary. 1 Corinthians 11:13,15 - "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory unto her: for her hair is given her for a covering." So there it is - a woman's hair is her covering, so why have anything else? Verse 15 also says that women should have long hair; so that answers that question. Secondly - Should men have short hair? Yes! 1 Corinthians 11:14 - "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" So, yeah, men should have short hair. I'll be back! :)
Also I Corinthians 11:13. "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?"
This verse means:
"The apostle having gone through a variety of reasoning and arguments, showing the superiority of the man to the woman, by which he would prove, that the one should be covered, and the other uncovered, returns to his subject again, and appeals to the common sense and understanding of the Corinthians, and makes them themselves judges of the matter; suggesting that the thing was so clear, and he so certain of what he had advanced being right, that he leaves it with them, not doubting but that they would, upon a little reflection within themselves, join with him in this point."
Okay, let me see if I can say this so it's not confusing - Y'all used 1 Corinthians 11:3-15, and so will I. Your reply made me have to really dig into the Scriptures, and I appreciate that. :) 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 - "Judge in yourselves, is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given her for a covering." Think about it - why is verse 14 where it is? Verse 13 asks if it's comely for a woman to pray to God uncovered, then verse 14 says that long hair on a man is a shame, and lastly, in verse 15, we're told that long hair is a woman's glory and is "given her for a covering." (a definition of 'given' is 'specified; assigned'; so not bending the Word, we could say that a woman's hair is 'assigned her for a covering') I believe that why verse 14 is where it is, is because long hair on a man is a shame to him, - he should have short enough hair that he's immedietly recognized as a man - but on a woman long hair is a glory, and a covering. I believe the difference is the length. Now let's look at verse 6 - "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered." The very verse y'all used to prove y'all's point, I'll use to prove mine - I take the first part of this verse to mean, if a woman is shorn, (def. - cut off; so, if her long hair is cut off), then she's without a covering. Shaven means - shaved; closely cut. So if a woman has shaved or cut short her hair, she has lost her covering, which is her hair. Ruth, you said you wear a head covering in church. Is that the only time and place you pray? Do you not pray daily? Let's say by "prophesying" (verse 5) you're unexpectedly witnessing to a lost person. Do you have to run inside, put on your covering, and race back out with the hope of the person still being there? Tell me, is that practical? I hope y'all think about this. I am not trying to be mean or down-grading, only biblical. Thanks for your time. :)
This has also helped us understand the Bible more too! =D
"For if a women be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered"
This verse is not saying "If a women be shorn then she is uncovered" It is saying, "For if a women BE not COVERED, then it is as if she was shorn. It is clearly saying that a covering is a piece of fabric or veil etc. It is not her hair.
Yes, all three of us wear headcoverings in church (as does our younger sister and our Mom). The headcovering is meant to be worn at church when you are in public. It is showing your submission to man.
If we knew we would be going somewhere where there would be preaching or praying we would bring our hats. (visiting, nursing home, revival. etc.) If you are in public and you happen to have to pray with some one than you would pray with them. It is unavoidable.
We have got these from different websites.:
Women should show the proper restraint and wear the head-covering. It is an issue of submission. The woman who covered her head was showing that she submitted to her husband’s authority and therefore to God’s order.
Nature of male and female identity is simply explaining that women are given long hair as a covering whereas men have short hair. Obviously he was writing into a culture where that was almost universally true – but his point is that men and Women are different; of equal worth but different! As a way of supporting his argument men must pray with uncovered heads and women with covered.
It has already been pointed out that the covering of verse 4 is one that a man may use or discard, certainly not his hair. In verses 14-15 the apostle is appealing to nature's parable to en force what he is saying. Left to itself, nature will provide the woman with long hair, while the man's will be considerably shorter.
Thus far there has been no mention of the hair, nor is there any reference to it until we come to the end of verse 5, then in verse 6. To infer that the covering which is prohibited for men in verse 4 is the hair is, of course, ludicrous. The only way a man could obey this injunction would be to shave his head bare! It is a covering he can wear, or remove at will. It is literally, "anything on his head," in the sense of a hat.
"If it doesn't matter whether women cover their heads in church or not, then it shouldn't matter whether men do either, since the teaching is for both.
But we require men to be bareheaded. Therefore women ought to be required to wear a covering"
Here, also, it must be, not her hair, but a covering which can be worn or discarded. This is undoubtedly a hat, and this she is instructed to wear. Not to do so is to dishonor her head; just as the wearing of a hat in church service by a man is a dishonor to his Head.
What does this mean? As we have seen, man is placed in subordination to Christ, Who is his Head. He is in the place of authority under Christ, and thus prays and prophesies uncovered. But the woman has been placed in subordination to the man, and thus is under his authority in the church. To indicate this position of subjection she wears a head covering.
(Continued) It will only let us post a certain amount) =D
This is not a personal and family matter, but relates to church gatherings, the coming together of the saints It has to do with praying and prophesying. The woman may be unmarried, or, if married, her husband may not be in the church gathering, may not even be saved. But this does not alter the instructions. "Dishonoring her head" refers, not to her husband, but to man in the position of authority in the church under the headship of Christ.
But isn’t a woman’s hair given to her to serve as a head covering (v. 15)? Does not a woman’s long hair qualify as a head covering? No. Much of the argument here is superfluous and even irrelevant if all the apostle meant to teach was that women should have long hair. The Bible is referring to a piece of cloth or fabric when it com-mands women to wear head coverings (and commands men not to do so). Beginning in the late nineteenth century, some argued (based on verse 15b) that Paul is instructing women to have long hair and that the so-called head covering is nothing more than long hair. If this “long hair equals head covering” interpretation is true, then we should be able to substitute the phrase long hair for the word covering in this passage (and short hair for no covering) and retain the passage’s meaning. However, this substitution of phrases (and thus this interpretation) does not make sense. For example, if covering means long hair, then verse 6 would be arguing that those women with short hair should cut their hair short— which is a logical absurdity. Likewise, verse 5 4 would then mean that a woman with short hair is one and the same with women who have no hair— again, a logical absurdity. This is why the Greek word used in verse 15 for the covering of a woman’s hair (peribolaion) is different from the Greek word used in verses 6 and 7 for the covering of cloth (katakalupto, which is derived from kalumma, a word that means “a covering, a hood, or veil”). The two Greek words are not interchangeable. When Paul says in verse 15b that a woman’s long hair is given her as a covering, he is not defining the nature of the covering. By the time he reaches verse 15, the inspired apostle has already presented his argument at length. His readers know what he is talking about, viz. a piece of cloth called a head covering or veil. He is now bringing to bear additional considerations for his listeners to weigh. One such consideration is how our innate sensibilities tell us that women’s heads ought to appear different than men’s heads. Our own natural sensibilities, says Paul, tell us that women’s heads should be more covered than men’s. This is what Paul means by his reference to hair in verse 15b. It is only in the past century that some commentators have attempted to make this “hair equals head covering” argument. Whether we look at Hebrew women in the Old Testament or Christian women through the ages (and in a variety of different cultures), God’s people have always understood that the head covering is a piece of cloth or clothing worn upon the head and not merely a woman’s long hair.
Simply following the development of Paul’s argument logically, in verses 13 to 15 he takes women’s long hair as the universal standard, and is referring to it as an example (Jesus uses examples all the time in the Bible. Here Peter is also) from nature to show the need for an additional covering.
It may be hard to grasp Paul’s reasoning here, because it sounds like he’s advocating covering a covering with a covering. From the context that is exactly what he means: he means that the natural covering of hair is an indication that the women should wear another covering on top of it. He appeals to the long hair as evidence for the need for the additional covering he’s been talking about, not as the covering itself
if she will not cover her head, then she might as well cut off all her hair too, as that is exactly the same thing. That is, with or without hair, even hair that has never been cut, she is without a covering of the sort Paul is requiring. In other words, her hair doesn’t suffice for a covering at all, it’s the same thing as being completely bald as far as the function of a headship covering goes.
Thanks for y'all's reply! :) I looked 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 up in Matthew Henry's Commentary. Here's some of what he has to say - "'Judge in yourselves' - consult your own reason, hearken to what nature suggests - 'is it comely that a woman pray to God uncovered?' Should there not be a distinction kept up between the sexes in wearing their hair, since nature has made one? Is it not a distinction which nature has kept up among all civilized nations? The woman's hair is a natural covering; to wear it long is a glory to her; but for a man to have long hair, or cherish it, is a token of softness and effeminacy. Note, it should be our concern,especially in Christian and religous assemblies, to make no breach upon the rules of natural decency."
Well, I have my belief on this subject, and y'all have yours.
How about next debating something political? Y'all pick the topic - I'll see what I have to see about it. :)
Gun control. With guns we are citizens, without them we are helpless slaves. The Second Amendment should be upheld and supported by the President, not attacked and refuted. People are so gullible! The government is trying to rule us, while we sit back and watch and do nothing to stop them... the people are the government; any President who tries to change that should be immediately impeached. The school shootings were not done by the guns. What types of guns were used don't matter. It's the horribly wicked video games that kids are playing. In a lot of these games you get extra points for each cop you murder, wound, and/or capture. Four-year-olds are left with these games while their stupid and irresponsible parents go out and shoot up, trying to drown their problems,then come back stone drunk and in many cases treat their children in ways that are ungodly and appalling. It's responible and loving parents that love the LORD that we need, not gun control! We need to ban video games, not guns! We need to love God, not the world! Gun control is something I strongly disagree with. It simply will not solve the problem and will in fact make it even worse. God help us.
AMEN!! How can people be so gullible to actually think that a thief or murder will say "Oh, oops no guns aloud guess I'll go back home". No! That will never happen! politics excuse "but, taking guns away will make it harder for murders to find guns". Not true. Murders will always find a way to get guns. Taking guns away will make Obama's agenda much easier.
Something we disagree with also is welfare checks! UGH!!! People would say we are cruel for saying such a thing. People do not need handouts. "If you don't work you don't eat." We understand widows and such, but that is what you have a church for. Honestly!! Putting our unborn children in debt so they can sit at home.
UGH!!!
=D Have a blessed day! God bless, ~The Keller Girls~
I disagree, welfare checks are extremely beneficial. Yes I understand your point why should people expect the government to pay for their food. But my dad was out of work for two years. Did he get fired for not doing the job? No he was one of the many people who got laid off. Honestly the government has ruined our economy. Did he not try to get work? No he did he filled out 10-29 job applications a day! It is just hard to get a job. So without an income how are you suppose to feed and clothe your children? Should the children just starve and not be dressed properly ?
Welfare checks by the government are bad!! Our government is BROKE, and they keep spending! We are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt.
It has happened to us too. Dad was laid off of his job for six months. He had ten people to feed! He started going out everyday putting in job applications everywhere. We did not take welfare though. Welfare is supposed to be used to do good, but people abuse the system. It used to be if a family was struggling that churches and charitys would help them out. We don't need the government giving out food stamps.
Your family really did need food stamps, but most people are abusing the system, and are making their children / grandchildren go into debt.
Yea the government is in debt. But what about the children ? Churches and charities don't give as much any more. 6 months isn't that bad. There are people who abuse the stamps but what about the people who don't? Should they be punished?
Yeah - FBI statistics show that more people are killed with clubs, hammers, and bats than guns. So do we ban hammers and baseball bats? If someone wants to kill they will find a way. And yeah, welfare checks are dumb. If you won't work, then why expect food to fall at your feet? The government definitely has a more than few loose screws.
So, shopping on the Sabbath Day. My older sister lives out of town and generally the only times she comes into town is on church days. (Wednesday and Sunday) So she goes shopping on those days to save time and gas. Yes, she could just do all her shopping on Wednesday, but usually good deals are only on weekends. So if it's necassary to save time, money, and gas, (and therefore being a good steward with what God has given us), then I believe shopping on the Sabbath Day is okay. However if it can be avoided it should be.
There are certain cases that can't be avoided. We don't know your sisters situation, and we are not trying to condemn her. Think of all those people that can't go to church because they have to stock shelves or be at the cash register etc. Yes, they could pick a different job so that they don't have to work on Sunday.
If more Christians would stand up, there would not be so many stores and restaurants open on the Lord's Day.
God specifically says in the 4th commandment:
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
God doesn't want us working on Sunday and he doesn't want us shopping and eating out on Sunday. etc.
We shouldn't disobey the Lord just to get better deals on Sunday.
We will say it again: We don't know your sister's situation, and we are not condemning her!
What do you think about eating out on Sunday? In Christ, ~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
If you take a look at Luke 14, after Jesus heals the man with dropsy, the Pharisees ask Him if it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath. What does Jesus say? He says - "Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?" Back in those times, donkeys and oxen were peoples living, if they didn't have them then they would be in line to starve to death because they had nothing to work with. Therefore I believe that we are allowed to shop and eat out on the Sabbath, because if we didn't shop or eat, we'd never live! (Did that all make sense?)
Why can't you shop on another day? Why can't you go home and make yourself lunch?
In the Bible times people had food in their house that they saved for Sunday. They didn't need to work on Sunday.
Yes, if your ox is in the ditch, and you NEED medication, then you go out and buy it. If you live an hour and a half away from home, then after church you may need to stop, and eat out.
People won't starve on Sunday. God did not say that if you don't go shopping on Sunday then you will die. He was saying in case of an emergency you may have too. If that all makes sense! =D
Have a great day and God bless! ~The Keller Girls~
Exactly! People are out of church so we can shop. I understand that you're not condemning. :) Eating out on Sunday is the same thing, I think. People are working and therefore out of church to serve, cook the food, etc. So I avoid it as much as possible. I definitely do not go (at all!) to restaurants that serve alcohol as that would be helping pay for their beer liscense and going against Proverbs 20:1.
Well... my favorite genre is Bluegrass Gospel. I don't really like country music 'cause there's usually a lot of drumming, which I do NOT like, but there are a few country songs I enjoy, such as 'Take Me Home' and 'Thank God I'm A Country Boy'. I don't believe there is such a thing as Christian Rock; rock music is bad and that's all there is to it. Like I said, I DO NOT like drums, they totally distract from the song's words, furthermore they don't give a Godly beat to the song, and therefore I don't think they have a place in Gospel and Christian music.
I think women should vote, especially now as every ballot counts. I don't view women voting as usurping authority, however I don't believe women really have a place in office or the military. Woman definitely shouldn't preach or be pastors.
Women have alot of emotion, and some vote with emotion. There is really no way show how we feel about it. Women voting just seems like a bad idea to us.
I honestly feel bad for you that you regard yourself as just an emotional being, women are so much more! Women are great thinkers and often have different perspectives, which can be helpful to the country. Think for yourself! don't let anyone tell you that you do not have the ability to think and process political issues.
God has mad a role for women (Proverbs 31). God specifically tell us that the women is the keeper at home.
We would personally not see a problem with a young lady going to college (if she is not married). We do not see a need for women to go to college. They may go to college to be ready in case the person they marry gets handicapped on the job, and they will need to provide for a time. It is the man's job to support his family.
We would also not see a problem with a single girl working until she find the right man either.
In this economy it is hard to support a family on just one income. We are blessed that our Dad can work and have enough to support all ten of us, and Mom can stay home and teach us!
The mother/ wife's place is at home. The way God intended it.
What do you say to consuming alcohol? I believe that drinking it is fine, but you must do so without the intention of getting drunk. Otherwise it is acceptable.
We are so sorry this has taken us so long! We have been in the midst of moving! =D
A good example: When our Dad was in young people the youth went out (with an adult) to a restaurant, and at that restaurant they served alcohol. One of the guys in the youth group decided to get a drink and persuaded a fellow brother in Christ to join him. That tiny bit of drink got him hooked and it caused him to have a drinking problem through out his life.
Lots of people think it is their right (liberty) to drink in the "intention" of not getting drunk, but in the process may make a brother stumble.
God tells us to abstain from the appearance of evil.
Alcoholl has broken so many lives! Why even think about drinking even a little?
As Bethany has shown you. in Proverbs 20:1.
We have found this article on the web. We don't know anything about these people, but they have a very good point on alchol
Hello! Thank you Bethany, that is another good point.
It is often debated what exactly Jesus drank. Some say it is grape juice others say it is alcohol, and yet some think it could be Kombucha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombucha) Check this out.
There is really no way of knowing.
Whatever Jesus drank, we honestly believe was not an intoxicating drink.
It seem as if you are struggling to find a good reason to drink alcohol without it pricking your conscious.
God tells us: " Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1. He also tells us to abstain from appearance of evil and to help our brother to not stumble. Drinking alcohol is obviously ignoring each of these things God told us.
If God tells us not to drink, then whatever Jesus was drinking would seem to not be intoxicating.
No, we do not have our contact information public, for privacy reasons. Our parents like us to get to know the people before we give them our contact information.
We're sorry. If you have a question, feel free to ask on our blog.
We go to a sovereign grace Baptist Church. We don't believe some of what they teach, but it is the best we can find in the area. We're sorry, that is all we can say. =D Have a great day!
I don't understand why you only wear head covering at church.. Why is that? I'm not a skirt wearing head covering Christian but I think I'm a good Christian the way I am but would you explain why you only wear head coverings to church?
Further up this page we had this same conversation with Bethany McGraw (if you want to read that).
The main reason is---
"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all
one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven,
let her be covered."
It says that if she doesn't wear a head covering in church then it is AS IF she was shaven. Obviously, head covering is referring to something a women wears on her head because if she didn't wear it in church, then it would be AS IF she was shaven. (That was confusing! lol)
"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head" I Corinthians 11:4 KJV
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the
glory of the man." I Corinthians 11:7
Another thing, how is a man supposed to go to church? Think about it. If God says that a man ought NOT to cover his head in church, then is he supposed to shave his head bald every Sunday? That is not consistent!
Wearing head coverings does not make us a better Christian than someone else, but we believe that God has commanded us ladies to wear a head covering (in church) as a term of respect to Christ and man.
Oh ok that makes sense.. Do you wear head covering in your house if your going to pray or just public? I respect the fact that you say wearing head coverings doesn't make you a better Christian ... I feel some people think they are better when they do certain things like that... Do you ever wish your hair wasn't so long? Dies it get in the way? I think long hair is beautiful and wish I could have long hair...
We wear head coverings only when we are in church. We don't believe like the Amish about always wearing head covering. =D
It may seem weird, but we wish our hair was longer!! We seem to have such short hair! =D Sometimes our hair will get in the way, but if that happens, out comes a pony tail holder or hair clip. Most times though our hair is down.
Long hair is a glory to a lady, as God had said in the Bible "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." I Corinthians 11:15 KJV Ruth was very discouraged about her hair several years back. When Hannah, Sarah, and Abigail's hair was growing long and think, her hair stayed short (It is VERY thin hair). Now her hair is growing long. Our Mom also has the same problem with her hair not growing.
I'd be interested to know why you don't listen to any music other than hymns or psalms? Just because Christian music is being created NOW doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't count as a "spiritual song", does it...? =)
We had this same conversation with Layla on our "About Bloggers" page. There is nothing Christian about "Christian" Contemporary Music!! It is wild and satanic. Spiritual songs and satanic songs are completely different. After reading our conversation with Layla let us know what you think! =D
I've read your conversation with Layla, and it was very interesting. =) I just have a few more questions... Why do you say that Christian Contemporary Music is wild and satanic? And what about drums makes you think that they are bad? =)
The beat the drums make come from an African dance that Africans did to worship Satan.
This world has incorporated these drums into their music, and churches have used this worldly, and satanic music to worship God! God tells us not to be like the world, and yet we use worldly music to worship him?
What do you girls think about speaking in tongues? It's a subject I know nearly nothing about, so I'd be really interested to hear what your views are. =)
Well, we believe that speaking in tongues is a false belief. We believe that people speaking in tongues is rare (if at all). We have heard so many cases of false speaking in tongues, (a man (wanting to test the Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" went to one of their churches) spoke the 23 psalm in German, and someone stood up and "translated" something completely different. Of course some people say, "that is just a false church". The Pentecostal faith is based on emotion and "signs" from God.
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:" Matthew 12:39
"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret." 1 Corinthians 14:27
"I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
The few times that people spoke in tongues in the Bible, they were speaking in different languages so that the different multitudes would understand. They weren't just speaking gibberish.
As you can see we are not experts on this matter either, but we are researching about it. =D
Hi Hannah, Ruth, Sarah, What are your opinions about women in the war. Do you think they should be allowed to be in the war? Hope you can help me!!!! Thanks!!! Love, Ashley creatingpreciousmoments.blogspot.com
I have read through some of this very long page and will say this:
I agree with Bethany on hair and coverings - I think - and i have always not agreed with/understood head coverings only in church.
Music. We listen to music with drums. Kellers, what would you say to the fact that drums are spoken of in the bible? "Praise Him with the timbrel and dance..." Psalm 150:3 I don't think that drums are satanic whatsoever. You cannot worship God with TO MANY songs or instruments!
Hi Lucy! Thank you for your comment! How are you doing?
Since you have read what we have written to Bethany you can see where we are coming from. We know there is no way to convince you or show you any more facts. Timbrels? Those are not drums what do you mean? The facts don't lie: The beat does come from Satanic dances.
Headcoverings: Okay, just curious. What does the Bible mean in I Corinthians 11:4-7? Is it saying that the women's covering is her hair? Obviously It couldn't be that because the guys are commanded to not cover their heads. Their only option would be to shave their hair every week?
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. I Corinthians 11:4-7
Okay, confession. I chose a topic that I do not have firm answers or understandings on in the area of head coverings and long hair.
As far as drums, forms of them have been used all over the world for many different purposes. So I don't think you can pinpoint one people and stereotype them. Timbrels could be translated as drums - none of us know positively - but if you are saying they are tambourines, aren't you also beating on that? What about music with drums in movies? I know neither of us are going to change our views, so I won't push it any further. ; )
I myself have long hair - just past my waist - but simply because in my opinion, the options for up styles are greater and I enjoy doing my hair in lots of different buns.
I think that people that don't know you guys at all could look at you and say that you live a works-based faith. Knowing you, I think you would say that you don't. But I would ask - though I think I know the basic answer - Why do you live your life like this. Why do you choose to be strict in these areas?
I know that you want to be lights for Christ and noticeably different. And I think you are; share your view and then I will expand on mine.
Oh goodness! We are so sorry about your grandma! :( We will be praying for all of you!
Tibrels "could be" translated into drums? A lot of things "could be" something. That is not a way to base our beliefs on. You shake tambourines. It doesn't matter what instrument it is. that beat is what matters. Yes, drums can be pinpointed back to the African people's satanic dances.
A lot of people think that our beliefs are work based, but we can assure you they are not. There is only one way to heaven through Christ Jesus. His grace and mercy is the only reason. Long hair is a woman's glory. It makes us feel feminine. It doesn't get us to heaven or promote us to a better standing with God. Drums do have an effect on people. God tells us to be in this world and not of it. Skirts: Skirts are modest and modestly dressing (including shirts) helps our brothers in Christ from stumbling, as well as being feminine. :)
So what is this movie y'all are making? "Teenager". :))
Grammy died March 2nd around 10:30pm. We just got home from being up there for her funeral for a week. Oohoo is great - very strong and ready to except life and get to work. : )
"Could be"? Drums "could be" honoring to God in that case. You "could be" wrong. Just saying. : ) Okay, so say there weren't any fashion of drums whatsoever in the bible; what about dancing? You don't think a rhythm was ever heard in that? And you forgot to answer my question about movie music.
As far as hair, I agree with you to a point. I don't think that hair has to be long to be feminine or a glory. I do believe that when girls try to get rid of there feminine looks, though, that is not God-honoring.
: ) : ) : ) I still think you're taking drums too far. What about clapping to music, even fiddle music? That is a beat! And I REALLY don't agree that you are a part of this world when you listen to drums!!
I want to dress in such a way that I am approachable - say, on a campus - and in a way that shows that you don't have to "dress like great-granny" to be modest, that you can be attractive, and even trendy at times. Yes, I will be noticeably different from the norm, but I don't want to be so "weird" or "different" that it makes people uneasy and choose to not approach me. Why? So that I can be a light for Christ. So that people can see a girl that is attractive and yet not only see the outer beauty, but also the way in which she carries herself, and treats others, and speaks, and so forth. (I am saying this about any girl, not just myself.) To be noticeably different and attractive in Godly, shining way. Addressing the second point I made. My wardrobe does not consist of denim skirts and grungy T-shirts - and I don't think yours does either. I also don't always, strictly wear skirts. I have a few outfits that are mid-thigh length skirts with on-the-baggy-end-pants. (I don't usually call them that though. : ))
I need to stop for now and get ready for bed, but I do want to finish this. I'll try tomorrow.
To finish what I was saying: I do wear pants sometimes, but always with a longer top never any amount of fitted-ness. By wearing pants, it says that I can and am fine with wearing pants, and that I can wear them in a modest, yet attractive way. What I said about my wardrobe not being grungy clothes; I am not a "clean n' neat" kind of person. I wear the same skirt and fleece or jacket for a month and it doesn't without thinking twice. My littlest sister never even gets out of her PJs except for Sundays. : ) And I am not only saying this to you guys, but to anyone who is reading this, because I know you guys may know this already. ; )
Another note on skirts. I am not a "lovely, lady-like, homeschool, Christian, skirt wearing, young lady." I am a Christian, and I am homeschooled, and I am skirt wearing - but I would refer to myself as a girl, not a young lady - but I run and climb trees and garden and roller skate and catch sheep and ride bikes and live the rest of my life in a skirt. Mostly, because I have always worn skirts and I have always done all of the things that I listed above in a skirt, so I don't ever think, man, it would be nice to not be in a skirt right now - it's life.
I am wishing I could see the previous comment that I wrote right now, because I am forgetting some of the things that I said.
Teenager: Yes, it is a 14 minute movie that I wrote and directed. Once we get it on youtube, we will send it to you. It is for the Homies, which are like the home-filmed, homeschool version of the Oscars that our Homeschool Group does. Lenore, Mikie and Leah are extras in it, but you have to be a part of the homeschool group to be eligible for awards, so that is why they don't have actual parts. then there is the Bitterlings - 9 kids - Chumelys - 2 girls - and Bailey Duncan is another extra, who is slightly autistic and an only child. It has been so fun to make it!!
I have some questions for you all: what do you believe about obeying Jewish holidays, etc.? Some people we know well, are doing it, and we believe it's wrong. Just wondering! Also, what church do you go to, where do you live, and what kind of animals do you have? We have chickens, dogs, & cats, and hope to get goats, and rabbits in the spring! We live in Hamilton, MI, & go to Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Holland, MI.
Hi Tori! We can honestly say we haven't researched that fully enough to answer that. We would not agree with obeying all the old testament laws and holidays. We go to a reformed church. We have rabbits, cats, and dogs. :) Sorry, we don't like to say where we live. :(
I am interested in hearing what you think about these issues!!! I don't really want to debate, more just compare our ideas... How about we first start with your religious ideas... Could your possibly answer all the questions you have under religious? I'll respond back and tell you my beliefs! Thanks girls!!!
ReplyDeleteLove,
Ireland
Hello Ireland,
DeleteSorry we haven't wrote yet we didn't see this until just now. That is fine! It would be fun to compare our beliefs. Okay! Why women should have long hair:
The Bible says
"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."
I Corinthians 11:15
We believe that God says specifically that he wants his daughters to have long hair, and to be a testimony of him.
When you see girls with long hair and skirts you automatically think those girls are Christians! It tells people
about God just the way you dress or have your hair or how you talk.
Ladies with extremely short hair we would take Deut. 22:5.
We understand that some ladies have cancer and lose their hair or some girls have extremely slow growing hair
(Or fragile hair). That can't be helped, they know they have their hair as long as they can.
These are some of the reasons we believe that women should have long hair.
God Bless!
~Hannah, Ruth and Sarah Keller
I never, ever cut or trim my hair(;
DeleteSo they are quite long!
I'd be really interested to debate on Number 2. That's the kind of subject I like talking about.
ReplyDeleteI'll debate on number 2 as well! I'm starting to really search out answers from the Bible, so this would be fun! :)
ReplyDeleteThank you Bethany!
ReplyDeleteWhat would you like to 'debate' on number 2 first?
First off - Should women wear head coverings in church? I don't think it's necessary. 1 Corinthians 11:13,15 - "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory unto her: for her hair is given her for a covering." So there it is - a woman's hair is her covering, so why have anything else? Verse 15 also says that women should have long hair; so that answers that question. Secondly - Should men have short hair? Yes! 1 Corinthians 11:14 - "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" So, yeah, men should have short hair. I'll be back! :)
ReplyDeleteHello Bethany!
DeleteThe women's hair is not her covering.
If the women's hair is her covering what about the men?
They have hair too, but God clearly states that:
"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head" I Corinthians 11:4 KJV
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the
glory of the man." I Corinthians 11:7
So "his head" does not mean his physical head, but his
spiritual head: The Lord Jesus.
It also says:
"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all
one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven,
let her be covered."
I Corthinthians 11:5-6
It says here: that " For if the woman be not covered,
let her also be shorn:..."
If a women's hair is her covering then why would she need
to be shorn?
This passage states that a women's hair is not her covering.
Here is a very interesting article that really helps
to understand head covering.
http://www.monergism.com/Spinney,%20Robert%20-%20Should%20Christian%20Women%20Wear%20Head%20Coverings%20Today.pdf
Also I Corinthians 11:13. "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?"
This verse means:
"The apostle having gone through a variety of reasoning and arguments, showing the superiority of the man to the woman, by which he would prove, that the one should be covered, and the other uncovered, returns to his subject again, and appeals to the common sense and understanding of the Corinthians, and makes them themselves judges of the matter; suggesting that the thing was so clear, and he so certain of what he had advanced being right, that he leaves it with them, not doubting but that they would, upon a little reflection within themselves, join with him in this point."
(This was got from an article online)
Have a blessed day!
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
Okay, let me see if I can say this so it's not confusing - Y'all used 1 Corinthians 11:3-15, and so will I. Your reply made me have to really dig into the Scriptures, and I appreciate that. :)
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 11:13-15 - "Judge in yourselves, is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given her for a covering."
Think about it - why is verse 14 where it is? Verse 13 asks if it's comely for a woman to pray to God uncovered, then verse 14 says that long hair on a man is a shame, and lastly, in verse 15, we're told that long hair is a woman's glory and is "given her for a covering." (a definition of 'given' is 'specified; assigned'; so not bending the Word, we could say that a woman's hair is 'assigned her for a covering') I believe that why verse 14 is where it is, is because long hair on a man is a shame to him, - he should have short enough hair that he's immedietly recognized as a man - but on a woman long hair is a glory, and a covering. I believe the difference is the length.
Now let's look at verse 6 - "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."
The very verse y'all used to prove y'all's point, I'll use to prove mine - I take the first part of this verse to mean, if a woman is shorn, (def. - cut off; so, if her long hair is cut off), then she's without a covering. Shaven means - shaved; closely cut.
So if a woman has shaved or cut short her hair, she has lost her covering, which is her hair.
Ruth, you said you wear a head covering in church. Is that the only time and place you pray? Do you not pray daily? Let's say by "prophesying" (verse 5) you're unexpectedly witnessing to a lost person. Do you have to run inside, put on your covering, and race back out with the hope of the person still being there? Tell me, is that practical?
I hope y'all think about this. I am not trying to be mean or down-grading, only biblical. Thanks for your time. :)
Hello Bethany!
ReplyDeleteThis has also helped us understand the Bible more too! =D
"For if a women be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered"
This verse is not saying "If a women be shorn then she is uncovered" It is saying, "For if a women BE not COVERED, then it is as if she was shorn. It is clearly saying that a covering is a piece of fabric or veil etc. It is not her hair.
Yes, all three of us wear headcoverings in church (as does our younger sister and our Mom).
The headcovering is meant to be worn at church when you are in public. It is showing your submission to man.
If we knew we would be going somewhere where there would be preaching or praying we would bring our hats. (visiting, nursing home, revival. etc.) If you are in public and you happen to have to pray with some one than you would pray with them. It is unavoidable.
We have got these from different websites.:
Women should show the proper restraint and wear the head-covering. It is an issue of submission. The woman who covered her head was showing that she submitted to her husband’s authority and therefore to God’s order.
Nature of male and female identity is simply explaining that women are given long hair as a covering whereas men have short hair. Obviously he was writing into a culture where that was almost universally true – but his point is that men and Women are different; of equal worth but different! As a way of supporting his argument men must pray with uncovered heads and women with covered.
It has already been pointed out that the covering of verse 4 is one that a man may use or discard, certainly not his hair. In verses 14-15 the apostle is appealing to nature's parable to en force what he is saying. Left to itself, nature will provide the woman with long hair, while the man's will be considerably shorter.
Thus far there has been no mention of the hair, nor is there any reference to it until we come to the end of verse 5, then in verse 6. To infer that the covering which is prohibited for men in verse 4 is the hair is, of course, ludicrous. The only way a man could obey this injunction would be to shave his head bare! It is a covering he can wear, or remove at will. It is literally, "anything on his head," in the sense of a hat.
"If it doesn't matter whether women cover their heads in church or not, then it shouldn't matter whether men do either, since the teaching is for both.
But we require men to be bareheaded. Therefore women ought to be required to wear a covering"
Here, also, it must be, not her hair, but a covering which can be worn or discarded. This is undoubtedly a hat, and this she is instructed to wear. Not to do so is to dishonor her head; just as the wearing of a hat in church service by a man is a dishonor to his Head.
What does this mean? As we have seen, man is placed in subordination to Christ, Who is his Head. He is in the place of authority under Christ, and thus prays and prophesies uncovered. But the woman has been placed in subordination to the man, and thus is under his authority in the church. To indicate this position of subjection she wears a head covering.
(Continued) It will only let us post a certain amount) =D
This is not a personal and family matter, but relates to church gatherings, the coming together of the saints It has to do with praying and prophesying. The woman may be unmarried, or, if married, her husband may not be in the church gathering, may not even be saved. But this does not alter the instructions. "Dishonoring her head" refers, not to her husband, but to man in the position of authority in the church under the headship of Christ.
DeleteBut isn’t a woman’s hair given to her to serve as a head covering (v. 15)?
Does not a woman’s long hair qualify as a head covering?
No. Much of the argument here is superfluous and even irrelevant if all
the apostle meant to teach was that women should have long hair.
The Bible is referring to a piece of cloth or fabric when it com-mands
women to wear head coverings (and commands men not to do so). Beginning
in the late nineteenth century, some argued (based on verse 15b) that Paul is
instructing women to have long hair and that the so-called head covering is
nothing more than long hair. If this “long hair equals head covering”
interpretation is true, then we should be able to substitute the phrase long
hair for the word covering in this passage (and short hair for no covering)
and retain the passage’s meaning. However, this substitution of phrases (and
thus this interpretation) does not make sense. For example, if covering means
long hair, then verse 6 would be arguing that those women with short hair
should cut their hair short— which is a logical absurdity. Likewise, verse 5
4
would then mean that a woman with short hair is one and the same with
women who have no hair— again, a logical absurdity.
This is why the Greek word used in verse 15 for the covering of a
woman’s hair (peribolaion) is different from the Greek word used in verses
6 and 7 for the covering of cloth (katakalupto, which is derived from
kalumma, a word that means “a covering, a hood, or veil”). The two Greek
words are not interchangeable.
When Paul says in verse 15b that a woman’s long hair is given her as
a covering, he is not defining the nature of the covering. By the time he
reaches verse 15, the inspired apostle has already presented his argument at
length. His readers know what he is talking about, viz. a piece of cloth called
a head covering or veil. He is now bringing to bear additional considerations
for his listeners to weigh. One such consideration is how our innate
sensibilities tell us that women’s heads ought to appear different than men’s
heads. Our own natural sensibilities, says Paul, tell us that women’s heads
should be more covered than men’s. This is what Paul means by his
reference to hair in verse 15b.
It is only in the past century that some commentators have attempted to
make this “hair equals head covering” argument. Whether we look at
Hebrew women in the Old Testament or Christian women through the ages
(and in a variety of different cultures), God’s people have always understood
that the head covering is a piece of cloth or clothing worn upon the head and
not merely a woman’s long hair.
Simply following the development of Paul’s argument logically, in verses 13 to 15 he takes women’s long hair as the universal standard, and is referring to it as an example (Jesus uses examples all the time in the Bible. Here Peter is also) from nature to show the need for an additional covering.
DeleteIt may be hard to grasp Paul’s reasoning here, because it sounds like he’s advocating covering a covering with a covering. From the context that is exactly what he means: he means that the natural covering of hair is an indication that the women should wear another covering on top of it. He appeals to the long hair as evidence for the need for the additional covering he’s been talking about, not as the covering itself
if she will not cover her head, then she might as well cut off all her hair too, as that is exactly the same thing. That is, with or without hair, even hair that has never been cut, she is without a covering of the sort Paul is requiring. In other words, her hair doesn’t suffice for a covering at all, it’s the same thing as being completely bald as far as the function of a headship covering goes.
We hope this answers your question!
Have a great day and God bless!
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
Thanks for y'all's reply! :) I looked 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 up in Matthew Henry's Commentary. Here's some of what he has to say - "'Judge in yourselves' - consult your own reason, hearken to what nature suggests - 'is it comely that a woman pray to God uncovered?' Should there not be a distinction kept up between the sexes in wearing their hair, since nature has made one? Is it not a distinction which nature has kept up among all civilized nations? The woman's hair is a natural covering; to wear it long is a glory to her; but for a man to have long hair, or cherish it, is a token of softness and effeminacy. Note, it should be our concern,especially in Christian and religous assemblies, to make no breach upon the rules of natural decency."
ReplyDeleteWell, I have my belief on this subject, and y'all have yours.
How about next debating something political? Y'all pick the topic - I'll see what I have to see about it. :)
Hello Bethany!
DeleteOkay!
Ummm.... We don't know what to debate.. lol..
What do you think needs changing in politics? lol =D
Gun control. With guns we are citizens, without them we are helpless slaves. The Second Amendment should be upheld and supported by the President, not attacked and refuted. People are so gullible! The government is trying to rule us, while we sit back and watch and do nothing to stop them... the people are the government; any President who tries to change that should be immediately impeached.
ReplyDeleteThe school shootings were not done by the guns. What types of guns were used don't matter. It's the horribly wicked video games that kids are playing. In a lot of these games you get extra points for each cop you murder, wound, and/or capture. Four-year-olds are left with these games while their stupid and irresponsible parents go out and shoot up, trying to drown their problems,then come back stone drunk and in many cases treat their children in ways that are ungodly and appalling.
It's responible and loving parents that love the LORD that we need, not gun control! We need to ban video games, not guns! We need to love God, not the world!
Gun control is something I strongly disagree with. It simply will not solve the problem and will in fact make it even worse. God help us.
Hello Bethany!
DeleteAMEN!! How can people be so gullible to actually think that a thief or murder will
say "Oh, oops no guns aloud guess I'll go back home". No! That will never happen!
politics excuse "but, taking guns away will make it harder for murders to find guns". Not
true. Murders will always find a way to get guns. Taking guns away will make Obama's
agenda much easier.
Something we disagree with also is welfare checks! UGH!!!
People would say we are cruel for saying such a thing.
People do not need handouts. "If you don't work you don't eat."
We understand widows and such, but that is what you have a church for.
Honestly!! Putting our unborn children in debt so they can sit at home.
UGH!!!
=D
Have a blessed day!
God bless,
~The Keller Girls~
I disagree, welfare checks are extremely beneficial. Yes I understand your point why should people expect the government to pay for their food. But my dad was out of work for two years. Did he get fired for not doing the job? No he was one of the many people who got laid off. Honestly the government has ruined our economy. Did he not try to get work? No he did he filled out 10-29 job applications a day! It is just hard to get a job. So without an income how are you suppose to feed and clothe your children? Should the children just starve and not be dressed properly ?
DeleteHi!
DeleteWelfare checks by the government are bad!! Our government is BROKE, and they keep spending! We are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt.
It has happened to us too. Dad was laid off of his job for six months. He had ten people to feed! He started going out everyday putting in job applications everywhere. We did not take welfare though. Welfare is supposed to be used to do good, but people abuse the system. It used to be if a family was struggling that churches and charitys would help them out. We don't need the government giving out food stamps.
Your family really did need food stamps, but most people are abusing the system, and are making their children / grandchildren go into debt.
Yea the government is in debt. But what about the children ? Churches and charities don't give as much any more. 6 months isn't that bad. There are people who abuse the stamps but what about the people who don't? Should they be punished?
DeleteDid you guys reply to this and I miss it?
DeleteHuh! We thought we had responded to this.
DeleteSix months IS a long time when there are ten people in the house!!
So we should just go into debt, because we can't find work?
There ARE Christian charites that will help, if you ask! Salvation Army for one.
Back in the Great Depression, charites gave a-lot of money and food! Then government came around, and private people and charites stopped giving!
It is not the government's place to give out "free" money and food!
Yeah - FBI statistics show that more people are killed with clubs, hammers, and bats than guns. So do we ban hammers and baseball bats? If someone wants to kill they will find a way. And yeah, welfare checks are dumb. If you won't work, then why expect food to fall at your feet? The government definitely has a more than few loose screws.
ReplyDeleteSo, shopping on the Sabbath Day. My older sister lives out of town and generally the only times she comes into town is on church days. (Wednesday and Sunday) So she goes shopping on those days to save time and gas. Yes, she could just do all her shopping on Wednesday, but usually good deals are only on weekends. So if it's necassary to save time, money, and gas, (and therefore being a good steward with what God has given us), then I believe shopping on the Sabbath Day is okay. However if it can be avoided it should be.
ReplyDeleteHello Bethany!
DeleteThere are certain cases that can't be avoided. We don't
know your sisters situation, and we are not trying to condemn her.
Think of all those people that can't go to church because they have to stock
shelves or be at the cash register etc.
Yes, they could pick a different job so that they don't have
to work on Sunday.
If more Christians would stand up, there would not be so many
stores and restaurants open on the Lord's Day.
God specifically says in the 4th commandment:
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep
it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:
in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor
thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor
thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea,
and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:
wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed
it."
God doesn't want us working on Sunday and he doesn't want
us shopping and eating out on Sunday. etc.
We shouldn't disobey the Lord just to get better deals
on Sunday.
We will say it again: We don't know your sister's situation,
and we are not condemning her!
What do you think about eating out on Sunday?
In Christ,
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
If you take a look at Luke 14, after Jesus heals the man with dropsy, the Pharisees ask Him if it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath. What does Jesus say? He says - "Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?" Back in those times, donkeys and oxen were peoples living, if they didn't have them then they would be in line to starve to death because they had nothing to work with. Therefore I believe that we are allowed to shop and eat out on the Sabbath, because if we didn't shop or eat, we'd never live! (Did that all make sense?)
DeleteHello Jemimah!
DeleteWhy can't you shop on another day? Why can't you go home and make yourself lunch?
In the Bible times people had food in their house that they saved for Sunday. They
didn't need to work on Sunday.
Yes, if your ox is in the ditch, and you NEED medication, then you go out and buy it.
If you live an hour and a half away from home, then after church you may need to stop, and eat out.
People won't starve on Sunday. God did not say that if you don't go shopping on Sunday then you will die.
He was saying in case of an emergency you may have too.
If that all makes sense! =D
Have a great day and God bless!
~The Keller Girls~
Exactly! People are out of church so we can shop. I understand that you're not condemning. :)
ReplyDeleteEating out on Sunday is the same thing, I think. People are working and therefore out of church to serve, cook the food, etc. So I avoid it as much as possible. I definitely do not go (at all!) to restaurants that serve alcohol as that would be helping pay for their beer liscense and going against Proverbs 20:1.
Hello Bethany!
DeleteExactly!
What is your view on music?
Blessings,
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
Well... my favorite genre is Bluegrass Gospel.
ReplyDeleteI don't really like country music 'cause there's usually a lot of drumming, which I do NOT like, but there are a few country songs I enjoy, such as 'Take Me Home' and 'Thank God I'm A Country Boy'.
I don't believe there is such a thing as Christian Rock; rock music is bad and that's all there is to it.
Like I said, I DO NOT like drums, they totally distract from the song's words, furthermore they don't give a Godly beat to the song, and therefore I don't think they have a place in Gospel and Christian music.
Yes, exactly!
DeleteThank you for sharing! =D
I think women should vote, especially now as every ballot counts.
ReplyDeleteI don't view women voting as usurping authority, however I don't believe women really have a place in office or the military. Woman definitely shouldn't preach or be pastors.
Of course!
DeleteWe think that women voting is bad, but it isn't a big deal.
There is really no way to change it though. =D
Why do you not approve of women voting?
DeleteWomen have alot of emotion, and some vote with emotion. There is really no way show how we feel about it. Women voting just seems like a bad idea to us.
DeleteI honestly feel bad for you that you regard yourself as just an emotional being, women are so much more! Women are great thinkers and often have different perspectives, which can be helpful to the country. Think for yourself! don't let anyone tell you that you do not have the ability to think and process political issues.
DeleteThanks for clarifying. What do you believe about women going to college and working, esp. as wives?
DeleteHi!
DeleteGod has mad a role for women (Proverbs 31). God specifically tell us that the women is the keeper at home.
We would personally not see a problem with a young lady going to college (if she is not married). We do not see a need for women to go to college. They may go to college to be ready in case the person they marry gets handicapped on the job, and they will need to provide for a time. It is the man's job to support his family.
We would also not see a problem with a single girl working until she find the right man either.
In this economy it is hard to support a family on just one income. We are blessed that our Dad can work and have enough to support all ten of us, and Mom can stay home and teach us!
The mother/ wife's place is at home. The way God intended it.
In Christ,
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
What do you say to consuming alcohol? I believe that drinking it is fine, but you must do so without the intention of getting drunk. Otherwise it is acceptable.
ReplyDeleteHello!
DeleteWe are so sorry this has taken us so long!
We have been in the midst of moving! =D
A good example:
When our Dad was in young people the youth went out (with an adult) to a restaurant, and at that restaurant they served alcohol. One of the guys in the youth group decided to get a drink and persuaded a fellow brother in Christ to join him. That tiny bit of drink got him hooked and it caused him to have a drinking problem through out his life.
Lots of people think it is their right (liberty) to drink in the "intention" of not getting drunk, but in the process may make a brother stumble.
God tells us to abstain from the appearance of evil.
Alcoholl has broken so many lives! Why even think about drinking even a little?
As Bethany has shown you. in Proverbs 20:1.
We have found this article on the web.
We don't know anything about these people, but they have a very good point on alchol
http://bible-christian.org/alcohol.html
We hope this helps you.
In Christ,
~The Keller Girls~
Proverbs 20:1 - ,"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is decieved thereby is not wise."
ReplyDeleteThank you, Bethany! That is a very good point! =D
DeleteYet Jesus frequently drank alcohol...
ReplyDeleteJesus drank "wine"... effectively grape juice.
DeleteWine is alcohol. the yeast in fermenting grapes takes the sugar in the grapes and turns it into alcohol. voila.
DeleteHello!
DeleteThank you Bethany, that is another good point.
It is often debated what exactly Jesus drank.
Some say it is grape juice others say it is alcohol, and yet some think it could be Kombucha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombucha) Check this out.
There is really no way of knowing.
Whatever Jesus drank, we honestly believe was not an intoxicating drink.
It seem as if you are struggling to find a good reason to drink alcohol without it pricking your conscious.
God tells us: " Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1. He also tells us to abstain from appearance of evil and to help our brother to not stumble. Drinking alcohol is obviously ignoring each of these things God told us.
If God tells us not to drink, then whatever Jesus was drinking would seem to not be intoxicating.
Voila!
=D
In Christ,
~The Keller Girls~
I was looking for your contact button or email on your blog, do you have one? Contact me at just4jane4@yahoo.com Thanks!
ReplyDeleteHello Miss Jane,
ReplyDeleteNo, we do not have our contact information public, for privacy reasons.
Our parents like us to get to know the people before we give them our contact information.
We're sorry. If you have a question, feel free to ask on our blog.
Have a great day!
~The Keller Girls~
Hello:)
ReplyDeleteI was just wondering which church you were going?
Thanks,
Hello!
DeleteWe go to a sovereign grace Baptist Church. We don't believe some of what they teach, but it is the best we can find in the area. We're sorry, that is all we can say. =D
Have a great day!
I don't understand why you only wear head covering at church.. Why is that? I'm not a skirt wearing head covering Christian but I think I'm a good Christian the way I am but would you explain why you only wear head coverings to church?
ReplyDeleteHello!
DeleteFurther up this page we had this same conversation with Bethany McGraw (if you want to read that).
The main reason is---
"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all
one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven,
let her be covered."
It says that if she doesn't wear a head covering in church then it is AS IF she was shaven. Obviously, head covering is referring to something a women wears on her head because if she didn't wear it in church, then it would be AS IF she was shaven. (That was confusing! lol)
"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head" I Corinthians 11:4 KJV
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the
glory of the man." I Corinthians 11:7
Another thing, how is a man supposed to go to church? Think about it. If God says that a man ought NOT to cover his head in church, then is he supposed to shave his head bald every Sunday?
That is not consistent!
Wearing head coverings does not make us a better Christian than someone else, but we believe that God has commanded us ladies to wear a head covering (in church) as a term of respect to Christ and man.
Looking forward to your response.
~The Keller Girls~
Oh ok that makes sense.. Do you wear head covering in your house if your going to pray or just public?
ReplyDeleteI respect the fact that you say wearing head coverings doesn't make you a better Christian ... I feel some people think they are better when they do certain things like that...
Do you ever wish your hair wasn't so long? Dies it get in the way? I think long hair is beautiful and wish I could have long hair...
We wear head coverings only when we are in church. We don't believe like the Amish about always wearing head covering. =D
DeleteIt may seem weird, but we wish our hair was longer!! We seem to have such short hair! =D Sometimes our hair will get in the way, but if that happens, out comes a pony tail holder or hair clip. Most times though our hair is down.
Long hair is a glory to a lady, as God had said in the Bible "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." I Corinthians 11:15 KJV
Ruth was very discouraged about her hair several years back. When Hannah, Sarah, and Abigail's hair was growing long and think, her hair stayed short (It is VERY thin hair). Now her hair is growing long. Our Mom also has the same problem with her hair not growing.
=D
Looking at the picture your girls hair isn't super in the way long:)
DeleteHi! =)
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested to know why you don't listen to any music other than hymns or psalms? Just because Christian music is being created NOW doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't count as a "spiritual song", does it...? =)
We had this same conversation with Layla on our "About Bloggers" page. There is nothing Christian about "Christian" Contemporary Music!! It is wild and satanic. Spiritual songs and satanic songs are completely different.
DeleteAfter reading our conversation with Layla let us know what you think! =D
I've read your conversation with Layla, and it was very interesting. =) I just have a few more questions... Why do you say that Christian Contemporary Music is wild and satanic? And what about drums makes you think that they are bad?
Delete=)
The beat the drums make come from an African dance that Africans did to worship Satan.
DeleteThis world has incorporated these drums into their music, and churches have used this worldly, and satanic music to worship God! God tells us not to be like the world, and yet we use worldly music to worship him?
What do you girls think about speaking in tongues? It's a subject I know nearly nothing about, so I'd be really interested to hear what your views are. =)
ReplyDeleteHello!
DeleteWell, we believe that speaking in tongues is a false belief. We believe that people speaking in tongues is rare (if at all). We have heard so many cases of false speaking in tongues, (a man (wanting to test the Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" went to one of their churches) spoke the 23 psalm in German, and someone stood up and "translated" something completely different. Of course some people say, "that is just a false church". The Pentecostal faith is based on emotion and "signs" from God.
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:" Matthew 12:39
"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret." 1 Corinthians 14:27
"I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
The few times that people spoke in tongues in the Bible, they were speaking in different languages so that the different multitudes would understand. They weren't just speaking gibberish.
As you can see we are not experts on this matter either, but we are researching about it. =D
Thank you for commenting!
~Hannah, Ruth, and Sarah Keller~
do you plan to go to college?
ReplyDeleteHi Hannah, Ruth, Sarah,
ReplyDeleteWhat are your opinions about women in the war. Do you think they should be allowed to be in the war?
Hope you can help me!!!!
Thanks!!!
Love,
Ashley
creatingpreciousmoments.blogspot.com
I agree with you all. Long hair is God-honoring.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI have read through some of this very long page and will say this:
I agree with Bethany on hair and coverings - I think - and i have always not agreed with/understood head coverings only in church.
Music. We listen to music with drums. Kellers, what would you say to the fact that drums are spoken of in the bible? "Praise Him with the timbrel and dance..." Psalm 150:3 I don't think that drums are satanic whatsoever. You cannot worship God with TO MANY songs or instruments!
Gun control. I agree, it's ridiculous! : )
That's all my comments for now.
Lucy
{Kellers} yes, the Lucy you know. (Hi!! : ))
Hi Lucy!
DeleteThank you for your comment! How are you doing?
Since you have read what we have written to Bethany you can see where we are coming from. We know there is no way to convince you or show you any more facts. Timbrels? Those are not drums what do you mean? The facts don't lie: The beat does come from Satanic dances.
Headcoverings: Okay, just curious. What does the Bible mean in I Corinthians 11:4-7? Is it saying that the women's covering is her hair? Obviously It couldn't be that because the guys are commanded to not cover their heads. Their only option would be to shave their hair every week?
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
I Corinthians 11:4-7
Okay, confession. I chose a topic that I do not have firm answers or understandings on in the area of head coverings and long hair.
DeleteAs far as drums, forms of them have been used all over the world for many different purposes. So I don't think you can pinpoint one people and stereotype them. Timbrels could be translated as drums - none of us know positively - but if you are saying they are tambourines, aren't you also beating on that? What about music with drums in movies? I know neither of us are going to change our views, so I won't push it any further. ; )
I myself have long hair - just past my waist - but simply because in my opinion, the options for up styles are greater and I enjoy doing my hair in lots of different buns.
I think that people that don't know you guys at all could look at you and say that you live a works-based faith. Knowing you, I think you would say that you don't. But I would ask - though I think I know the basic answer - Why do you live your life like this. Why do you choose to be strict in these areas?
I know that you want to be lights for Christ and noticeably different. And I think you are; share your view and then I will expand on mine.
We are well, but loosing Mommy's Mother.
Lu <><
Hi Lucy! :)
DeleteOh goodness! We are so sorry about your grandma! :( We will be praying for all of you!
Tibrels "could be" translated into drums? A lot of things "could be" something. That is not a way to base our beliefs on. You shake tambourines. It doesn't matter what instrument it is. that beat is what matters. Yes, drums can be pinpointed back to the African people's satanic dances.
A lot of people think that our beliefs are work based, but we can assure you they are not. There is only one way to heaven through Christ Jesus. His grace and mercy is the only reason.
Long hair is a woman's glory. It makes us feel feminine. It doesn't get us to heaven or promote us to a better standing with God.
Drums do have an effect on people. God tells us to be in this world and not of it.
Skirts: Skirts are modest and modestly dressing (including shirts) helps our brothers in Christ from stumbling, as well as being feminine. :)
So what is this movie y'all are making? "Teenager". :))
Hello,
DeleteGrammy died March 2nd around 10:30pm. We just got home from being up there for her funeral for a week. Oohoo is great - very strong and ready to except life and get to work. : )
"Could be"? Drums "could be" honoring to God in that case. You "could be" wrong. Just saying. : ) Okay, so say there weren't any fashion of drums whatsoever in the bible; what about dancing? You don't think a rhythm was ever heard in that? And you forgot to answer my question about movie music.
As far as hair, I agree with you to a point. I don't think that hair has to be long to be feminine or a glory. I do believe that when girls try to get rid of there feminine looks, though, that is not God-honoring.
: ) : ) : ) I still think you're taking drums too far. What about clapping to music, even fiddle music? That is a beat! And I REALLY don't agree that you are a part of this world when you listen to drums!!
I want to dress in such a way that I am approachable - say, on a campus - and in a way that shows that you don't have to "dress like great-granny" to be modest, that you can be attractive, and even trendy at times. Yes, I will be noticeably different from the norm, but I don't want to be so "weird" or "different" that it makes people uneasy and choose to not approach me. Why? So that I can be a light for Christ. So that people can see a girl that is attractive and yet not only see the outer beauty, but also the way in which she carries herself, and treats others, and speaks, and so forth. (I am saying this about any girl, not just myself.) To be noticeably different and attractive in Godly, shining way. Addressing the second point I made. My wardrobe does not consist of denim skirts and grungy T-shirts - and I don't think yours does either. I also don't always, strictly wear skirts. I have a few outfits that are mid-thigh length skirts with on-the-baggy-end-pants. (I don't usually call them that though. : ))
I need to stop for now and get ready for bed, but I do want to finish this. I'll try tomorrow.
For now,
Lu <><
To finish what I was saying:
DeleteI do wear pants sometimes, but always with a longer top never any amount of fitted-ness. By wearing pants, it says that I can and am fine with wearing pants, and that I can wear them in a modest, yet attractive way. What I said about my wardrobe not being grungy clothes; I am not a "clean n' neat" kind of person. I wear the same skirt and fleece or jacket for a month and it doesn't without thinking twice. My littlest sister never even gets out of her PJs except for Sundays. : ) And I am not only saying this to you guys, but to anyone who is reading this, because I know you guys may know this already. ; )
Another note on skirts. I am not a "lovely, lady-like, homeschool, Christian, skirt wearing, young lady." I am a Christian, and I am homeschooled, and I am skirt wearing - but I would refer to myself as a girl, not a young lady - but I run and climb trees and garden and roller skate and catch sheep and ride bikes and live the rest of my life in a skirt. Mostly, because I have always worn skirts and I have always done all of the things that I listed above in a skirt, so I don't ever think, man, it would be nice to not be in a skirt right now - it's life.
I am wishing I could see the previous comment that I wrote right now, because I am forgetting some of the things that I said.
Teenager: Yes, it is a 14 minute movie that I wrote and directed. Once we get it on youtube, we will send it to you. It is for the Homies, which are like the home-filmed, homeschool version of the Oscars that our Homeschool Group does. Lenore, Mikie and Leah are extras in it, but you have to be a part of the homeschool group to be eligible for awards, so that is why they don't have actual parts. then there is the Bitterlings - 9 kids - Chumelys - 2 girls - and Bailey Duncan is another extra, who is slightly autistic and an only child. It has been so fun to make it!!
Lucy <><
I have some questions for you all: what do you believe about obeying Jewish holidays, etc.? Some people we know well, are doing it, and we believe it's wrong. Just wondering! Also, what church do you go to, where do you live, and what kind of animals do you have? We have chickens, dogs, & cats, and hope to get goats, and rabbits in the spring! We live in Hamilton, MI, & go to Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Holland, MI.
ReplyDeleteHi Tori!
DeleteWe can honestly say we haven't researched that fully enough to answer that. We would not agree with obeying all the old testament laws and holidays. We go to a reformed church. We have rabbits, cats, and dogs. :) Sorry, we don't like to say where we live. :(